how much energy is needed to be that person. and with mandela, it's a very lower energy. he's very quiet. inside he's quiet. i learned that. he's commanding. he has most commanding presence without being lordly. he doesn't walk into a room as nelson mandela, he walks into a room as madiba, as an orphan. he doesn't take the room, the room givers itself. quiet he's always been i think. when he first got into robin island and they issued short pants to everybody except to akmad, the one indian among them, he rejected his long pants and madiba said no, no, no, put them on. we're all going to have long pants. and then he said to himself, are hear going to call me mister. how did he do that? so he hears that a guard's child is sick. the guard comes to work and he says good morning, how is your baby. is he all right, the baby. thing like that. you know, he doesn't feel like the big success that we all hold him up as. he thinks of himself personally, deep inside as a failure. because of his family life. he couldn't do both. >> rose: south africa became his family. >> yes. and so